Real Social Skills

When a friend won’t take no for an answer

January 28, 2014June 21, 2021 Real Social Skills

A reader asked:

Hiya, I often don’t like being touched or having people get very close or breathe on me, I also can’t handle too many people talking at once etc. (I have actually suspected that I have autism for a while now)

But one of my close friends always gets really offended when I ask her to stop touching me or to leave me alone. It’s gotten to the point where she stresses me out so much I try to avoid her all day. What can I do? I enjoy her company sometimes but she really pushes my boundaries…

realsocialskills said:

I think it might help to identify when you enjoy her company. What kind of circumstances is it in, and can you make more of your interaction with her happen in that kind of setting?

Some people are nice to spend time with in some contexts, but don’t treat you well in others.

One way this can play out is that some people respect physical boundaries in environments that suggest them, but not in more open-ended space.

For instance, some people who will touch you if you meet up in their house or yours won’t if you meet in a restaurant and sit on opposite sides of the table.

Some people will respect your physical boundaries if other people are present, but not if you are alone. Or vice versa.

Similarly, if the boundaries she pushes are all or mostly physical, it might be that spending time with her online works better than hanging out with her in person.

It’s also ok if you decide that you’d really rather not spend time with her. Even if you like spending time with her sometimes, it might not be worth it. Most people who do deal-breaking things are also pleasant to be around some of the time. I don’t know what you should do, because I don’t know you or your situation – it’s up to you and how you feel and what you decide.

Don’t use other people as stim toys

January 27, 2014June 21, 2021 Real Social Skills

A lot of us are taught that stimming is wrong. And, further, a lot of us are taught that stimming is wrong FAR more forcefully than we’re taught about other people’s bodily autonomy.

This can make it really confusing to understand physical boundaries. And sometimes, when people are figuring out that stimming is ok, they stim in ways that are physically invasive to other people. Also, sometimes people stim in ways that are physically invasive to other people in order to *avoid* doing the specific things they’ve been forcefully taught not to do. (Eg: someone holding a friend’s hand and playing with it rather than flapping).

But, so here’s the thing. Stimming is fine. Using someone else’s body for stimming is usually not fine. Here are some rules of thumb about things likely to be perceived as physically invasive:

Touching someone’s hair
Touching someone’s clothing or possessions
Waving your hands or an object close to someone’s face
Repeating someone’s name over and over
Staring at someone or something close to them as a form of visual stimming (counting parts or visually tracing lines will look like staring)

Asking permission first tends not to solve the problem:

Most people will find it invasive even to be asked
Some people will say yes anyway, and then afterwards will think you are creepy
Unless you have reason to think the answer is probably yes, and you’re good at asking questions in a way that makes it clear you’ll take no for an answer, it’s probably better to assume it’s not ok
This is particularly true of stims that involve someone else’s body or personal space
It’s sometimes less true of things that involve objects, but I’m having trouble explaining circumstances under which touching objects might be ok.

Some of these boundaries are often different with sexual or romantic partners. Stimming with each other often *can* be consensual in those cases, but it’s important to make sure it *is* consensual.

But stimming is not the problem. Invading other people’s personal space is the problem.

It’s important to learn how to meet your sensory needs and stim without violating other people’s physical boundaries. I wrote a post with some suggestions on how to do that a while back, but there are a lot of other strategies that work too.

An anti-skill that interferes with friendship

January 26, 2014June 14, 2021 Real Social Skills

This post is a further response to an ask by someone who identifies as aspie and is struggling to making friends.

Yesterday, I addressed the burden of stigma we face, and how it can make it hard to find people who will treat us well enough to be good friends. Today, I want to start talking about other problems autistic people often have making friends. (Usual standard caveat – if you relate to any of this, it’s fine to use these concepts whether or not you are autistic. Don’t worry about appropriation.)

There are a lot of social problems that autistic people often have beyond other people’s anti-autistic hate. Some of these things are inherently difficult for some of us, and some of them have to do with how we are often taught counterproductive coping strategies.

For instance, a lot of autistic people find it difficult to judge other people’s boundaries and level of interest in interacting (and that’s partly because, as kids, we’re taught that we have to interact with other kids and see them as friends regardless of what we or they want).

Here’s an example of how an autistic impairment and stigma combine to create a relationship problem for some people:

One thing that often gets autistic people classified as aspie is having more receptive language problems than expressive language problems
People with really good, or good-seeming, expressive language can often cover for the fact that they don’t understand much of what’s going on
This allows them, especially as kids, to pass as just socially awkward, or to pass as being too gifted to get along with other kids, or any number of variants on that theme
There is often very, very intense pressure on autistic people classified as aspie to cover impairment at all costs and to appear as normal as possible
This makes receptive language problems even worse, because it prevents them from getting good feedback on whether they’re understanding anything
And sometimes, aspie spaces can make this even worse. Sometimes aspie-oriented communities are centered around helping people to deny that they have language problems, and to say that the rest of the world just communicates wrong
(It’s true that the rest of the world needs to work on accommodating people with communication disabilities more – but autistic folks need to acknowledge that they *have* communication disabilities, and a lot of aspie-identified folks like to deny this)
Covering up receptive language problems can make friendship really difficult. Friends need to be able to understand each other
Which means friends need to be able to admit it and fix it when they *don’t* understand each other

If this sounds like you, it’s likely that getting better at friendship will involve looking more autistic.

More on social problems autistic people often struggle with tomorrow.

Friendship is real even if your friends aren’t in the same room

January 24, 2014June 21, 2021 Real Social Skills

A reader asked:

A friend of mine is being told by their psychologist that they need to sever all their online relationships and learn “real contact” with “real people” to develop their “social skills”. Every time in the past that they tried that it got them bullied which is why they turned to online relationships where they were treated more like a human being. Any advice you can offer for them to say to this psychologist in defense of online relationships?

realsocialskills said:

I guess the first thing I’d say here is that your friend does not need their therapist’s permission to keep their friends. It’s ok to have online friends and take those relationships seriously, even if you have a therapist who treats them as contemptible and imaginary.

Second thing I’d say here is that if you’re in a position to get rid of that therapist, you probably should. Someone who tells you that large aspects of your life aren’t real, and tells you to sever relationships you value, is probably not on your side.

If you’re being forced to see this therapist and don’t have other options, it’s ok to lie.

But yes, friendship is real even if your friends aren’t in the same room. And it’s not good to break off relationships because someone else thinks they’re imaginary.

Getting supervisors to explain things

January 19, 2014June 21, 2021 Real Social Skills

A reader asked:

Do you have any suggestions for how to ask supervisors and employers to explain something to you in a way that they’ll understand you actually want to know?

Ex: I had an issue at work with a girl using her sister’s employee discount at my register, and I didn’t know they were sisters? They could have been married for all I knew and my manager came over to talk to me about it and when I asked how to find out if a person is allowed to use the discount, she basically just said it was obvious.

realsocialskills said:

Unfortunately, I haven’t found anything that works particularly reliably.

One thing I’ve found is that a lot of people really do have trouble understanding that other people don’t know things they know.

Sometimes, if you are really explicit about the fact that you care but don’t quite understand, they eventually get it.

For instance:

Manager: You can’t keep letting her sister use her discount card. She’s done it several times at your register.
Employee: How do I tell if a person is allowed to use the discount?
Manager: Just don’t let people use it if they’re not allowed to.
Employee: I definitely want to make sure I’m following the rules, but I’m actually having a lot of trouble telling who is allowed to use the cards. I thought they might have been married or something. How can I tell?

Sometimes that works. Sometimes it just makes them more annoyed. Sometimes it makes them more annoyed, and then works. Sometimes it backfires. Sometimes you have to back down and let them end the conversation by just letting them say it is obvious.

It’s not super reliable, but it’s more reliable than anything else I know of at getting supervisors to explain things.

Another possibility is to accept that the boss isn’t going to explain it to you, and to ask another employee. Sometimes, peers are willing to believe that you don’t understand something and explain it to you, even if the boss doesn’t.

“You should make a complaint!”

January 17, 2014June 14, 2021 Real Social Skills

So, I’ve noticed this pattern:

Someone will describe some act of discrimination or social violence
And then very well-meaning people will weigh in and say things like
“They can’t treat people that way!”
“Wow, you should really report that!”

Reporting incidents of discrimination can be a good thing, and sometimes it goes somewhere. But, hearing this well-intentioned advice can actually be really frustrating, for a number of reasons:

The thing about being a marginalized person is that discrimination is a routine experience, not an occasional outrage:

Things that sound like aberrations to folks who are usually socially valued enough to be treated well most of the time are daily life for a lot of marginalized people
If we filed a formal complaint every time we experienced this, we’d have no time or energy for anything else
And sometimes, we want to get on with our lives and do things other than fight discrimination
Which means that, sometimes, when we talk about discrimination, we’re not asking for advice on how to make it go away; sometimes we’re accepting that we’re not going to be able to make it go away this time
And it needs to be ok to disagree about the right way to proceed

Also, sometimes complaints don’t actually help:

When the bad thing is the rule rather than the exception, it’s unlikely that anyone will care.
When the offender is much more socially valued than the victim, it’s likely that no one will care
People who complain frequently are generally seen as problem whiners, even if they are entirely justified in every complaint they make

Complaints are a good idea sometimes. But complaining is a very personal decision. Understand the costs and risks of complaining. Do not pressure a marginalized person to make a complaint in order to make yourself feel better about the state of the world. Do offer to support them if they want to do so.

Learning to argue and stay oriented

January 16, 2014June 21, 2021 Real Social Skills

A reader asked:

I was conditioned from a really young age to be passive and go along with whatever was happening (mostly because of my dad’s temper. He was never abusive but he was very angry and it was never worth the battle to disagree with him), so now everytime i get into a disagreement or heated discussion with someone I end up crying and choking up to the point that I can’t get a sentence out.

Do you have any advice for being able to argue inspite of this?

realsocialskills said:

A few suggestions:

It might help to communicate more slowly when things aren’t urgent. For instance:

Some conversations might be possible for you to have over email, but not in person
It’s ok to say “let’s move this conversation to email so I can figure out what I think without melting down”
It’s also ok to need to pause the conversation from time to time
Needing the conversation to be over for a while doesn’t mean you’ve conceded the point
Some things are urgent, but a lot of conversations can be slowed down

Learn to use the word “maybe”:

It’s ok not to know what you want
It’s ok not to know whether you’re ok with something
It’s ok to need time to figure it out
“Maybe” is an important word, you don’t always have to say yes or no immediately

It might help not to rely so much on your voice:

A lot of people who can’t get words out for various reasons can still type
You might find that typing is more reliable than speech for you when a conversation gets emotionally intense
An iPad can be really useful for this since it is very portable
You can use a text-to-speech app (Verbally is a free one, Proloquo4Text is a dramatically better but also more expensive one),
Or you can even type in Notes and show the screen to the person you’re talking to
Or sometimes typing the thing first can make it possible to say the thing with your voice.

It might help to make less eye contact:

If you’re intimidated, looking at someone’s face can make matters worse
If you aren’t looking at their face, it might be easier to think and speak

Asking for more information when someone asks for advice

January 15, 2014June 21, 2021 Real Social Skills

A reader asked:

How do you ask someone for more information about a situation – as they’re asking for advice, and you want to give accurate advice because you know you don’t have all the info to give informed advise — without them thinking you’re doubting them or judging them? — This is something I struggle with because I want what I say to be accurate and pertinent but I don’t know how to ask for more information. Any advice?

realsocialskills said:

I think sometimes it can help to say explicitly that you believe them, want to help, and need more information. Eg:

“I’m sorry that’s happening to you. I think I need to know a bit more about what’s going on in order to give you good advice. Can you tell me ___?”

Another approach is to ask them more about their needs than about the situation. This isn’t always the right approach, but in some situations it works well, eg:

What do you need right now? Are you trying to find a safe place to go? Advice on how to talk to them about the situation? Something else?

Special interests and friendship

January 14, 2014June 14, 2021 Real Social Skills

A lot of us like things really intensely and want to talk about them all the time.

But not everyone wants to hear everything we know about trains, hats, elephants, Pokemon, or the Dead Sea Scrolls. Constant monologues tend to drive people away.

In childhood, a lot of us are taught that our interests are the problem. We’re taught that we shouldn’t like things as much as we do, that our interest in them is annoying, that no one will ever want to listen, and that we need to talk about normal things. That doesn’t help.

It’s ok to like things. Liking things is *good*. Spending a lot of time thinking about, doing, and talking about things you care about is a good thing, not a bad thing. And it’s possible to do that and still treat other people well.

Part of that involves respecting other people’s boundaries. Most people aren’t interested in the Most Awesome Thing you like, and lecturing them about it when they don’t want to hear it isn’t going to make them *more* interested. When you’re having a conversation with someone, it’s important to identify things you *both* want to talk about. And if there aren’t things you both want to talk about, it’s important to find someone else to talk to rather than trying to push someone into it against their will.

(A caveat: I am talking about peer relationships here. I think that parents and teachers have a significant degree of responsibility to take an interest in things their kids are into. I will probably address that in more detail at some points.)

Some people will have contempt for you for having interests, and for the particular things you care about. Those people are wrong, and interacting with them quickly becomes toxic. People who don’t want you to like things, or who have a problem with the thing you like, aren’t going to suddenly start respecting you. It gets a lot better when you find people who actually like you.

It’s also important to find people who like the thing you like. People who share your interests exist, and you can interact with them on a level that’s not possible with anyone else. Now that we have the internet, it’s much easier than it’s ever been to find people to discuss the things with.

But it’s also possible to be friends with people whose interest in your favorite topics is limited. Some people like people who like things, even when they like different things. Those people can be really great friends.

In conversations with that kind of friend, sometimes they will need to say “ok, new topic?” It’s important to be able to hear that, and to tell the difference between someone saying, “You’re pathetic for caring about that boring thing, stop being so weird”, and someone saying “I am bored with this right now, and would like to talk about something we’re both interested in.”

Given the way most of us are treated from early childhood, it can be very difficult to learn to tell the difference between someone expressing a boundary and someone expressing contempt. It’s important and possible to learn how to do this, though.

It helps to keep in mind that not everyone who would rather not hear about train wheels right now is trying to take things away from you, though. Your friends aren’t going to make a behavior chart and make you earn train things by talking about other topics and keeping silent about the things you care about. (If they do anything remotely like that, they’re not friends and you need to find other friends who actually respect you.)

It also helps to keep in mind that, no matter how polite they are about it, someone who regularly has active contempt for you and your interests is not your friend.

This is hard to navigate. But it’s worth it.

On being a lonely autistic person

January 13, 2014June 21, 2021 Real Social Skills

A reader asked:

I know this is silly, but I’m seriously depressed about not having friends. Some other aspies online have advised me to act more neurotypical and less trans. Do you think this would work?

realsocialskills said:

First of all, it’s not silly. Being lonely and isolated is awful, and it’s ok that it bothers you.

I don’t think that it is a good idea to act more neurotypical or less trans in order to attract friends. I think in the long run, it will make you more lonely. Passing creates a lot of barriers (and also tends to make receptive language problems worse). Passing might increase the number of people willing to spend time with you, but it’s unlikely to get you more actual friends.

It’s hard to live with the kind of stigma we live with. You’re probably surrounded by a lot of people who are nice to neurotypical folks, but horrible to you. In that situation, it’s easy to think that you’re the problem and that you should just shame yourself into being someone people will like. But, shame is not a cure. Trying to become someone who won’t be stigmatized is likely to end poorly. You’re always going to be autistic, and you’re always going to face hate from people who think we are unworthy.

You’re not going to be able to make all of that hate go away, and you’re not going to be able to hide from it all – but you *can* have friends. Friendship is possible, even for people like us, even in this world as it is. There is a way forward for you.

Part of it might be a matter of finding people. If you are autistic, especially if you are also marginalized in another way, you’re going to encounter a lot of people who treat you badly, and probably not so many you can trust to treat you well when you’re visibly different in stigmatized ways. Even if you’re doing everything right, it can still be really hard and take years to find good friends. If you are young, this might be a lot of the problem.

Meanwhile – don’t underrate the people you interact with online. You don’t have to be in the same place for it to be a real friendship. There are advantages to being in person, but it’s not the only thing that matters.

Some of this post I wrote for another lonely person might be relevant for you too.

Aside from stigma, there are also other problems a lot of autistic people have in making friends. More on that tomorrow, and probably more on that for the rest of the week.

Don’t give up.