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An inadvertently creepy thing a lot of autistic people do

Real Social Skills

Sometimes autistic people want to hang out with a group of people and can’t tell if it’s ok to talk to them or not.

And then, they try to watch for a while to try and pick up on signs that interaction would be welcome.

This is generally a bad idea. The problem is that people find it uncomfortable to be watched by people who aren’t explaining their presence. If they’re not ok with you joining them, they’re probably not ok with you watching them, either.

It’s better to just go up to people and ask if it’s ok to join them. Watching first for more than a couple of seconds actually makes things worse.

On “feeling unsafe”

Real Social Skills

Sometimes, people in power use “feeling safe” in a manipulative way. They shift the conversation away from whether or not you actually are safe, and into a conversation about your feelings. Sometimes people in power who do this have a kind affect and seem to really care about helping you to feel better. This can make it hard to know in your own mind what the problem actually is, and hard to keep hold of your understanding that something is wrong and needs to be addressed.

It helps to keep in mind that these things are different:

  • Feeling unsafe in reaction to something even though you actually are safe
  • Seeing something as evidence that you are actually unsafe
  • People in power will often try to confuse you about which thing you are experiencing, but it’s important to stay mindful of the difference.

It’s also possible to have a feeling that you are unsafe, and not be sure whether it’s reasonable or not:

  • It’s important to take that feeling seriously
  • And to think through what it means, and whether there might be a real danger
  • Sometimes when you feel unsafe it will be an irrational reaction, but don’t be quick to dismiss it as one
  • If you think it’s an irrational reaction, make sure you have a concrete reason for thinking that it’s irrational and that things are actually ok

People can feel unsafe around someone for all kinds of reasons other than being unsafe:

  • Being bigoted against another group (eg: racist fear of black people)
  • Being triggered by something (eg: feeling afraid because seeing men wear hats is triggering)
  • Forgetting to take medication and having strange reactions to things as a result 
  • Taking a new medication with unexpected side effects that complicate your ability to perceive things accurately  
  • Misunderstanding something someone did or said (eg: taking something literally that was not intended literally)
  • Hallucinations
  • Being exhausted
  • When it’s this kind of thing, sometimes the external situation still needs to be addressed, but often it can be dealt with by processing things yourself 

But sometimes the problem is that you’re *actually not safe*, and sometimes this is in ways that it’s hard for other people to see, eg:

  • If you are being pressured to share private information with people who can’t be trusted to keep things confidential
  • If you are being pressured to use a ramp that is too steep to be safe, or allow people to carry you into an inaccessible building
  • If people around you are bigoted against you in subtle, but constantly corrosive ways
  • If people are intentionally triggering you in order to confuse and disorient you into doing what they want
  • If you’re being triggered in a way that makes it impossible for you to understand what is going on well enough to keep yourself safe, even if no one is doing it on purpose
  • If there is no food available that you can safely eat for an extended period
  • If you are experiencing executive functioning problems in ways that make it hard or impossible for you to do things that are necessary for survival, and no one is willing to help you
  • If you’re spending a lot of time in a environment is physically overloading in painful ways
  • If you have medical problems and doctors refuse to communicate in a way you can understand, or if you only have access to them in an environment that prevents you from communicating
  • and any number of other things

All of these things are the kind of thing that apparently well-meaning people will often try to address by trying to get you to process your feelings so that you will feel safe. That’s a dangerous reaction, and it’s important to notice when people are doing it, and to learn how to insist that they address the actual safety issue.

Sometimes the feeling is the problem.

Sometimes the problem is that you’re *actually not safe*.

If someone’s trying to manage your feelings rather than the actual threat to your safety, it’s important to remember that they’re doing a bad thing. And that it’s ok to want to actually *be* safe, even if all they want to do is make you *feel* safe. 

Cooperation with feelings derails is one of the hardest anti-skills to unlearn. But it’s also really, really important.

About creepy guys

Real Social Skills

A lot of men (and probably other genders, but mostly men) like to creepily hit on people (usually women) in contexts in which it’s not ok to hit on people. (Eg: on the subway). 

Girls start experiencing this before they’re considered old enough for sex ed.

Creepy men regularly do this in a way that’s slightly deniable.

Like sitting way too close. Or asking an almost innocuous thing. And it feels really horrible to be on the receiving end, but it can be hard to put your finger on why. And if you object, the man who started it will try as hard as he can to say you’re being unreasonable. Often, bystanders or people you tell afterwards will empathically agree and tell you he was just being friendly and that didn’t have to be rude.

This is not your fault. It’s not your fault that creepy guys are awful to you, and it’s not your fault that people punish you for refusing to cooperate with their creepy actions.

There is usually no polite way to object. Because they manipulate the rules of politeness so that you have to be rude to say no.

It’s ok to be rude in that situation.

Being in that situation doesn’t mean you’re a rude inconsiderate person. It means you’re asserting an important boundary in the only available way.

Most of these guys know exactly what they are doing. It’s not innocent awkwardness. It’s a different thing. It’s doing something they know they can probably get away with denying that they’ve done.

(People do sometimes do this kind of thing by mistake, too. But it’s not ok then either. And most people who do this, know damn well what they’re doing.)

Don’t tell me to not let it get to me

Real Social Skills

This post is partly in response to a recent post by Dave Hingsbuger about dealing with hate. I’m quoting part of it here, but it’s an important post and I really reccomend reading all of it:

 I want to stop the screaming in my head.

I want to stop the endless internal monologues that I have to prove to myself that another person’s words, or actions towards me, we wrong or baseless.

I want to fully recognize that someones hateful and bigoted action towards me is simply hatred and bigotry and as such exist in their heart not something that exists in my reality.

These are hard things to want, but I want them.

quote ends here

I know this feeling well. And it’s really hard. And one reason it’s hard to talk about is that, well meaning people will suggest all kinds of things like:

  • It shouldn’t matter to you what they think of you. They’re just hateful. It’s their problem.
  • Have you tried meditation?
  • Remember that you are loved, those people don’t matter
  • Just ignore them
  • Life is too short to let that get to you

And the thing is… Those people do matter, and you can’t just decide not to care.

Our culture has active contempt for all kinds of people who deserve better. And when you’re the target, it’s hard to know that people who hate you are wrong. It’s hard to know all the time – no one succeeds 100% at this.

And sometimes it’s presented as though being hurt by it is a moral failing. It’s not. There is no skin any of us could grow that would make us immune. There is no simple stance that will make it stop hurting.

But it does help to remind ourselves, as much as possible, that we deserve better. And to spend our time with people who get it.

Identifying bad friends

Real Social Skills
A reader asked:
How to weed out bad friends?
realsocialskills said:
Here are some rules of thumb:
Good friends are people you like. If you’re trying to figure out whether you like someone, here are things to keep in mind:
  • Do you like being around them? Is interaction with them usually pleasant?
  • How do you talk about them when they’re not there? If most of what you say is a complaint of some sort, you probably don’t actually like them very much
  • It’s ok not to like people
  • But if you don’t like someone, it’s probably better not to try to be their close friend or spend lots of time with them
Good friends are people who like you:
  • Does this person enjoy your company?
  • Do they respect you when you’re there? If most of what they say is insulting, they probably don’t like you.
  • If they make a lot of jokes at your expense that hurt you, and mock you if you tell them to knock it off, they probably don’t like you very much
  • If they act like they’re doing you a favor by being your friend, they probably don’t like you very much
  • Life is a lot better when you surround yourself with folks who like you, and minimize entanglements with people who don’t
Good friends don’t creep on each other:
  • People who insist on touching you in ways you don’t like probably aren’t very good friends
  • People who won’t stop hitting on you or making sexual comments probably aren’t very good friends
  • People who insist on talking to you about explicit sexual topics you aren’t comfortable hearing about probably aren’t very good friends.
  • People who make a lot of explicit comments about your sex life or sexual desires without caring whether you want to discuss that with them aren’t good friends
  • In some social circles, you might come under tremendous pressure to laugh this kind of thing off
  • But it’s not ok, and life is better when you don’t tolerate it, and when you are able to create a social circle of people who don’t tolerate it
Good friends understand that you have a life outside them:
  • Friends aren’t always available when friends want them to be, because they have a life and other things that matter
  • Good friends understand that you spend time with other people, and have emotionally significant relationships that they aren’t part of
  • They also understand that you have other things you need to attend to, such as work, school, taking care of your health, etc
  • And they don’t treat it as an offense against them when you spend money on yourself, even when you’re buying something they wish they could afford but can’t
  • Friends who expect to always unconditionally come first in your life are not good friends. (Even if they think they put you first. Even if it’s true, but it usually isn’t.)
Pay attention to your feelings:
  • If you feel horrible about yourself every time you see someone, it’s probably not a good friendship
  • If how you feel about someone changes a lot, there’s probably something really wrong. It might be fixable, it might be possible to work around it, but it’s important to figure out what it is
  • If how you feel about someone is dramatically different when you’re with them than when you’re not, something is wrong and it’s important to figure out what it is
  • For instance, if you consistently dread hanging out with someone, but enjoy it when you do, something is wrong (it might not be a problem with them, it might be social anxiety or something else. But it’s important to figure out what’s going on)
  • And when you swear up and down that you like someone, but you also avoid them and don’t feel good when you spend time with them, you probably don’t actually like them as much as you think you do. Even if they have really great qualities.

Sometimes it’s not a bad friend. Sometimes it’s a bad friendship that can be improved by renegotiating boundaries:

  • For instance, some people are good to spend time with, but not good to spend tons of time with. Captain Awkward has a good post on small doses friends
  • Some people act dramatically different in public than in private. Spending time with them mostly or entirely in the setting you like them in can make the friendship a lot better
  • Some people are nice to interact with in person, but not online, or vice versa. Being someone’s friend doesn’t mean you have to discuss politics with them on facebook, or that you have to engage with their derailing comments on everything you post. Similarly, talking to someone online doesn’t mean you have to go to their noisy parties
  • Some friendships aren’t really personal relationships so much as alliances in which you trade favors. That’s an ok kind of relationship to have, so long as it’s actually equal and not exploitation. Trying to convert an alliance into a close friendship tends to end poorly though, especially if only one person wants that

It’s not the abuse that made you awesome

Real Social Skills

If you’ve been abused, and you’ve also learned a lot and done awesome things, some people might try to tell you that the abuse made you stronger. That your awesomeness came from the abuse in some way.

But it’s not the abusers who made you awesome.

You did that.

You’re responsible for all the things you’ve learned and done. Not people who hurt you. They don’t get credit for any of what you’ve done.

And you don’t have to be grateful for any of it.

Don’t use other people as stim toys

Real Social Skills

A lot of us are taught that stimming is wrong. And, further, a lot of us are taught that stimming is wrong FAR more forcefully than we’re taught about other people’s bodily autonomy.

This can make it really confusing to understand physical boundaries. And sometimes, when people are figuring out that stimming is ok, they stim in ways that are physically invasive to other people. Also, sometimes people stim in ways that are physically invasive to other people in order to *avoid* doing the specific things they’ve been forcefully taught not to do. (Eg: someone holding a friend’s hand and playing with it rather than flapping).

But, so here’s the thing. Stimming is fine. Using someone else’s body for stimming is usually not fine. Here are some rules of thumb about things likely to be perceived as physically invasive:

  • Touching someone’s hair
  • Touching someone’s clothing or possessions
  • Waving your hands or an object close to someone’s face
  • Repeating someone’s name over and over
  • Staring at someone or something close to them as a form of visual stimming (counting parts or visually tracing lines will look like staring)

Asking permission first tends not to solve the problem:

  • Most people will find it invasive even to be asked
  • Some people will say yes anyway, and then afterwards will think you are creepy
  • Unless you have reason to think the answer is probably yes, and you’re good at asking questions in a way that makes it clear you’ll take no for an answer, it’s probably better to assume it’s not ok
  • This is particularly true of stims that involve someone else’s body or personal space
  • It’s sometimes less true of things that involve objects, but I’m having trouble explaining circumstances under which touching objects might be ok.

Some of these boundaries are often different with sexual or romantic partners. Stimming with each other often *can* be consensual in those cases, but it’s important to make sure it *is* consensual.

But stimming is not the problem. Invading other people’s personal space is the problem.

It’s important to learn how to meet your sensory needs and stim without violating other people’s physical boundaries. I wrote a post with some suggestions on how to do that a while back, but there are a lot of other strategies that work too.

An anti-skill that interferes with friendship

Real Social Skills

This post is a further response to an ask by someone who identifies as aspie and is struggling to making friends.

Yesterday, I addressed the burden of stigma we face, and how it can make it hard to find people who will treat us well enough to be good friends. Today, I want to start talking about other problems autistic people often have making friends. (Usual standard caveat – if you relate to any of this, it’s fine to use these concepts whether or not you are autistic. Don’t worry about appropriation.)

There are a lot of social problems that autistic people often have beyond other people’s anti-autistic hate. Some of these things are inherently difficult for some of us, and some of them have to do with how we are often taught counterproductive coping strategies.

For instance, a lot of autistic people find it difficult to judge other people’s boundaries and level of interest in interacting (and that’s partly because, as kids, we’re taught that we have to interact with other kids and see them as friends regardless of what we or they want).
Here’s an example of how an autistic impairment and stigma combine to create a relationship problem for some people:
  • One thing that often gets autistic people classified as aspie is having more receptive language problems than expressive language problems
  • People with really good, or good-seeming, expressive language can often cover for the fact that they don’t understand much of what’s going on
  • This allows them, especially as kids, to pass as just socially awkward, or to pass as being too gifted to get along with other kids, or any number of variants on that theme
  • There is often very, very intense pressure on autistic people classified as aspie to cover impairment at all costs and to appear as normal as possible
  • This makes receptive language problems even worse, because it prevents them from getting good feedback on whether they’re understanding anything
  • And sometimes, aspie spaces can make this even worse. Sometimes aspie-oriented communities are centered around helping people to deny that they have language problems, and to say that the rest of the world just communicates wrong
  • (It’s true that the rest of the world needs to work on accommodating people with communication disabilities more – but autistic folks need to acknowledge that they *have* communication disabilities, and a lot of aspie-identified folks like to deny this)
  • Covering up receptive language problems can make friendship really difficult. Friends need to be able to understand each other
  • Which means friends need to be able to admit it and fix it when they *don’t* understand each other

If this sounds like you, it’s likely that getting better at friendship will involve looking more autistic.

More on social problems autistic people often struggle with tomorrow.

Friendship is real even if your friends aren’t in the same room

Real Social Skills
A reader asked:
A friend of mine is being told by their psychologist that they need to sever all their online relationships and learn “real contact” with “real people” to develop their “social skills”. Every time in the past that they tried that it got them bullied which is why they turned to online relationships where they were treated more like a human being. Any advice you can offer for them to say to this psychologist in defense of online relationships?
realsocialskills said:
I guess the first thing I’d say here is that your friend does not need their therapist’s permission to keep their friends. It’s ok to have online friends and take those relationships seriously, even if you have a therapist who treats them as contemptible and imaginary.
Second thing I’d say here is that if you’re in a position to get rid of that therapist, you probably should. Someone who tells you that large aspects of your life aren’t real, and tells you to sever relationships you value, is probably not on your side.
If you’re being forced to see this therapist and don’t have other options, it’s ok to lie.
But yes, friendship is real even if your friends aren’t in the same room. And it’s not good to break off relationships because someone else thinks they’re imaginary.

“You should make a complaint!”

Real Social Skills

So, I’ve noticed this pattern:

  • Someone will describe some act of discrimination or social violence
  • And then very well-meaning people will weigh in and say things like
  • “They can’t treat people that way!”
  • “Wow, you should really report that!”

Reporting incidents of discrimination can be a good thing, and sometimes it goes somewhere. But, hearing this well-intentioned advice can actually be really frustrating, for a number of reasons:

The thing about being a marginalized person is that discrimination is a routine experience, not an occasional outrage:

  • Things that sound like aberrations to folks who are usually socially valued enough to be treated well most of the time are daily life for a lot of marginalized people
  • If we filed a formal complaint every time we experienced this, we’d have no time or energy for anything else
  • And sometimes, we want to get on with our lives and do things other than fight discrimination
  • Which means that, sometimes, when we talk about discrimination, we’re not asking for advice on how to make it go away; sometimes we’re accepting that we’re not going to be able to make it go away this time
  • And it needs to be ok to disagree about the right way to proceed

Also, sometimes complaints don’t actually help:

  • When the bad thing is the rule rather than the exception, it’s unlikely that anyone will care.
  • When the offender is much more socially valued than the victim, it’s likely that no one will care
  • People who complain frequently are generally seen as problem whiners, even if they are entirely justified in every complaint they make

Complaints are a good idea sometimes. But complaining is a very personal decision. Understand the costs and risks of complaining. Do not pressure a marginalized person to make a complaint in order to make yourself feel better about the state of the world. Do offer to support them if they want to do so.